35 replies

1. Brian Rinaldi 3 min later

   @zachleat I think both can be true - some software succeeds on its merits over its marketing. However, I think the latter is _more_ often true - that "marketing" wins more often than merits.

2. Bastian Allgeier 3 min later

   @zachleat what I wish was more true or what I think is more true?

   1. Zach Leatherman 4 min later

      @bastianallgeier which is more true to reality

      1. Matt Wilcox 57 min later

         @zachleat @bastianallgeier Long term: merits.
         Short term: marketing.

         Bash is still kicking. Vim is still kicking. Linux is still king of the hill for any serious development or industry. None had "marketing".

         Coldfusion, ASP, Flash... dead and gone. Marketed well.

         1. Zach Leatherman 58 min later

            @mattwilcox @bastianallgeier how long is long term? 5 years? 10 years?

            1. Matt Wilcox 1 hr later

               @zachleat @bastianallgeier Long term is whenever the marketing stopped paying for promotion.

               Is the project still alive and popular once the marketing budeget is removed? It's a long term project.

               Still needs marketing? It's a short term project reliant on the money drip to succeed. The moment that goes, the project dies. That's a short term success.

3. Patrick Grey 6 min later

   @zachleat Long term or short term?

   1. Zach Leatherman 7 min later

      @patrick I did not specify! How long is long term?

      1. Patrick Grey 2 days later

         @zachleat Long = the glacial rate of my replies? 😅 I'm thinking years. I have 11ty in mind - I'm not saying possums aren't great marketing... I *tend* to associate software carefully developed over a longer term with quality and reliability, which increases adoption and success in the long term. I think marketing and hype can help adoption in the short term but if the quality isn't there, the success won't last. IMHO.

   2. Jeff Craig 1 hr later

      @patrick @zachleat Short term is what matters. Good marketing gives you more time to build merit (or build the revenue to buy the merit).

      There are absolutely niches where Merit will matter more, but those areas are just that: niche.

4. McNeely 8 min later

   @zachleat Option C) Yes

   1. Zach Leatherman 11 min later

      @McNeely well that doesn’t really tell me anything 😅

      1. McNeely 44 min later

         @zachleat You're right that should say "Both"

         1. Zach Leatherman 57 min later

            @McNeely ah I kinda meant that it still doesn’t offer any additional insight into what folks think (the poll might not either, to be fair 😅)

5. elle mundy 9 min later

   @zachleat i think it depends on what users care about more: seeming cool, or getting a working product. it’s different for different products & markets, and the two aren’t mutually exclusive

   1. Zach Leatherman 11 min later

      @exchgr for sure—I’m just curious to see how this plays out

6. Phil Hawksworth 17 min later

   @zachleat It’s a trap!

   You’re letting us decide for ourselves what you mean by “succeeds”.

   “Gets huge buzzy adoption” or “produces the right result for the user”?

   1. Zach Leatherman 20 min later

      @philhawksworth *raises eyebrows repeatedly*

   2. David leininger 1 hr later

      @philhawksworth @zachleat hard agree on this point. Also if the base is loyal and active that’s a success.

      I’d always vote smaller and less toxic.

7. Kyle 25 min later

   @zachleat not sure I agree with "software succeeds" as a premise...

   1. Zach Leatherman 26 min later

      @kyle computers belong in the ocean

8. Thomas Broyer 40 min later

   @zachleat Please define success

   1. Zach Leatherman 55 min later

      @tbroyer when I posted this, I was thinking of success as “widely used” but honestly I don’t know if others are voting with the same context

9. Lene Saile 1 hr later

   @zachleat I had to say merits, as this is true for _me_

10. Private reply 2 hr later
11. Dave 🧱 2 hr later

    @zachleat this is bait and I’m struggling to fight temptation

    1. Private reply 5 hr later
12. Elliott 2 hr later

    @zachleat I've seen so many projects get copied (no issue with copying since it's what OSS is all about) with the smallest spin on them and then gain incredible traction just because of the author

13. Andrew Walpole 2 hr later

    @zachleat Maybe also worth saying that I think software that succeeds on merit can multiply success via marketing. There will always be untapped audience that just isn't in the default/natural channels.

14. Mike-麥-Mai-v1.618 😎 4 hr later

    @zachleat i made people believe I am a famous gangster rapper in china by launching a marketing campaign lol. So yeah, style wins over substance. 🤣 chinesegangster.com

    1. Donnie D'Amato 4 hr later

       @mikemai2awesome @zachleat this is the origin story I needed.

15. Matthew Mone 5 hr later

    @zachleat define "succeeds"

16. jobelenus 6 hr later

    @zachleat neither. Both.

17. Florens Verschelde 14 hr later

    @zachleat I’ve been forced to build marketing websites using SharePoint once. This software did not succeed (for the few years it was successfully pushed as a CMS solution…) on its merits, that’s for sure.

    1. Florens Verschelde 14 hr later

       @zachleat Chrome is a good example of both factors playing a major role. It had a lot of merit for sure. It also captured the market quickly and strongly thanks to a huge marketing push by the number one Web giant. Every major Google property was telling users of not-Chrome to switch to Chrome for years (and are probably still doing it).